NZ Centre for Political Research

This week's poll asks:

What do you think is the MAIN reason why some people are long-term beneficiaries?
a) They don’t want to move off the benefit
b) There are not enough jobs available
c) They lack the necessary skills to fill the jobs available
d) Other

*I have witnessed horror stories of people ripping the system off, at my expense. I would like to think that I could get assistance for WINZ if I ever needed it. Doubt I would get it though because I am white, born in New Zealand, never been on a benefit before and really don't want some darkie immigrant asking me questions about my circumstance!!! Some would call me racist. I am not racist, but I sure am prejudiced. Neil

*A mixture of A and B and a lack of confidence because of dependency. Would suggest a voucher system for food shelter and clothing with a small allowance for every day expenses. Remember it is always easier to find a job to improve your situation while you have one no matter how meanial. Clark

*If there was no benefit it would never be missed. Roy

*Human nature has been still is and always will be to follow the easiest route, especially for the dull, and uneducated. The easier the State makes life by giving handouts, the harder it becomes to wean people off that road. So, as the takers breed, so does the voter weighting swing towards the politicians who give handouts, in the end that is the weakness of democracy, it will destroy the nation in time. John

*Few people will ever reject something that is handed out on a plate. Why would anyone want to go fishing if someone brought you fish to the table each day. Greg

*It is too easy to stay on a benefit. Help those who genuinely need it but make it tough for the bludgers and the lazy. Gary

*Our daughter was under huge pressure from the State to leave home at 16 and go onto the Independent Youth Benefit. Sadly she followed the advice of ideologically-driven State authorities rather than her loving, capable, well-educated and committed family. The State took out gagging orders silencing our whole family when we wanted to expose their inappropriate interventions. The ongoing harrassment of these gagging procedures caused us to leave NZ taking with us our high-tech company. It is now 6 years since our daughter was 16 and she is still living off NZ State welfare, even though her family have been more than willing and capable of financing her. If ever there was a case of the State incentivising family breakdown, one need look no further than our tragic experiences at the hands of corrupt, ideologically-driven NZ authorities. The day may come when New Zealanders learn of the real horrifying atrocities committed by their government, details of which have been silenced to protect the guilty. Dave

*Beneficiaries are grossly overpaid so there is no incentive to get a job! Trish

*A moocher culture abounds throughout N.Z. the cry of "I'm entitled" is the new National Anthem. This is supported by the public servants who farm these Bludgers. Michael

*They are so mentally entrenched they become dysfunctional in a multitude of ways. Shona

*For most of these people on long-term doll it's just pure laziness. While most of us work, they sit on their backsides and do absolutely nothing. Al

*I spoke to a former politician whose answer to the welfare crisis was to turn off the taps. My comment to this was that the crime rate will soar His answer was that we have to deal with that for a while but it would come right fairly quickly. Is it any wonder that he is not in Goverment now someone with a modicum of sense. Robin

*About time the govt did something. Same with ACC payouts. Carol

*Being on a benefit can produce a beeter income than working - and for no effort, so why go off the benefit? Laurence

*A lot did not finish their education or do well at school. Fiona

*Muriel Newman for Prime Minister. Richard

*Claimants are lazy and lack initiative to work towards a decent lifestyle. Benefits are far to easy to obtain either honestly or dishonestly. Peter

*A is the main one but B should also be included because there is not enough untrained workers jobs available. Keith

*It's a combination of all three - although I would have said suitable jobs - which leads to fecklessness, idleness, no responsibilities & it's their RIGHT to be supported by the state, i.e. their neighbours. And the freedom to pass the time as you want, be it cash-in-hand work, theivery,drug-dealing, or just plain effing about. Far too easily obtained, too comfortable, & far too prevalent! Dave

*Sense of entitlement, successive socialist govts. have taught people. A whole attitude change to the cradle to the grave welfare payments needs to be instituted but it won't be by this govt. Monica

*It allows when the freedom to follow other interests. Ross

*It is an easy way to do nothing and get paid for it. David

This week's poll asks:

What do you think is the MAIN reason why some people are long-term beneficiaries?
a) They don’t want to move off the benefit
b) There are not enough jobs available
c) They lack the necessary skills to fill the jobs available
d) Other

*Our safety net has become a hammock! Andy

*It goes back to their upbringing, and the examples set in their home. in some parts of the country, teenage pregnancy is the beginning of a life choice, and this happens mainly to those who are not equipped to mother children, and who often have multiple partners. John

*For many beneficiaries, receiving a benefit is a deliberate career choice. The DPB and the unemployment benefit should only be paid for a finite period - say one year. Within that time, the beneficiary has to sort themselves out and then get back to work. Additionally, the DPB should only be paid for the first child - again for a finite period. If a woman splits from her partner and has multiple children, then she should be supported for the first year and then she is on her own. Women who keep having children will only be supported for the first child for the first year. If they keep having "accidents" they will have to find the funds to keep their children. Otherwise, adoption will have to be considered. Another way to look at it is "If you can't feed them, don't breed them". I know plenty of beneficiaries who are in the category of being career beneficiaries. I am a debt collector!! Delwyn

*To damn lazy to, if they are fit and healthy. Lynn

*Some beneficiaries may actually be imposing their will on the Government, and, in this sense, GOVERNING. Ditar

*Govt doesn't have the balls to do thier job WE employ them for. David

*It doesn't need comment probably in 98%,except b,c and d always follow on from a. Frank

*Whilst in the majority of cases it is a question of "its too easy to just stay on the benefit" there are other cases where the work for low skilled people is just not available at the present time. David

*Lack of jobs paying the same level or larger that the benefit. Carl

*The introduction of the DPB was the catalyst for the breakdown of family life in New Zealand and introduced generations of Maori and low decile europeans to a life reliant on state hand outs. It must be withdrawn or so modified that the young females see the disaster of a life on benefits and get a work ethic. Irvine

*Why work when you can get free handouts? Maurice

*Some have university degrees but lack the people/social skills. Dot

*Beneficiaries call their benefit their "pay". Alan

*And the present crisis will continue until we have a govt with the courage to get stuck in and put these bludgers on notice - 3 months and you're on your own - but it won't happen under the present smiley man and his bunch of yes men and wimps. Carolyn

*If people really wanted to move off the benefit, they would do something about finding work. If they didn't already have skills for jobs available, they could train. Some times it is a matter of gaining confidence to apply for a job but there are people who just don't want to work! If there weren't hand-outs for these people, they'd have to work for a living. Dorothy
In my previous job I managed gangs of largely Maori guys. They often told me how many of their friends and families operated, building a life based on benefit income. My workers despaired at being unable to change attitudes. Kim

*Freezing works are gone. Fishing trawlers heve gone. Contagious imported temps harvest fruit. Council jobs go to Indians first. If I was Maori I'd be on an Invalid Benefit, you betchya. Michael

*Probably A, closely followed by B. C comes into it also. All need addressing. It's more than time that something is done about it. Sheila

*All goverments have been to soft to do anything about it has it is a vote for the Party. I have had enough of working & paying taxes to these bluggers, no goverment has the balls to do anythink. Geoff

*They like the lifestyle. Graham

*We lived next door to a man in 1998 to 2001 in Auckland and he had been on the unemployment benefit for 13 years when we moved in next door to him. He had been made redundant in his Post Office job. He lived with his elderly mother and she was the one to put the rubbish out at the gate every Monday morning! He was fit and well - and LAZY. He still didn't have a job when we moved in 2001 and was in his late 30s. Lorna

*I am tired of my taxes going to people who have kids just to stay on the benefit,esp people that wrought the system when they don't need to be on the DBP. Why work when you can get FREE MONEY? NO more!! Debbie

*The beneficiaries I know are using the system as it appears easier than having to make the extra effort to transition to the independence most people take responsibilty for. Aaron

*Easy Money! Nigel

This week's poll asks:

What do you think is the MAIN reason why some people are long-term beneficiaries?
a) They don’t want to move off the benefit
b) There are not enough jobs available
c) They lack the necessary skills to fill the jobs available
d) Other

*I didn't want to get off it when I was on it. I felt entitled to a good job and didn't want a hard one. Martin

*It really annoys me that people with substance abuse problems receive the sickness or invalids benefits. This is a self imposed condition. And don't get me started on rehabilitation, of what I have seen of the methadone programme, it is a waste of tax payers money. Murray

*A. They lack intrinsic motivation and the benefit encourages the same. Peter

*Have had personal experience of people who do not want to work or would take work if paid under the table in order to retain benefit. As an employer I have found this not to be uncommon. I reside in arural area where a number of beneficiaries reside. Colin

*There are also those who get caught in the system. It becomes difficult to get off it because of the thesholds. Nick

*I work in West Auckland, & the benefit is the 'money for nothing' option. Why bother exerting yourself? Nearly every DPB case I have seen, the partner/currrent boyfriend is living at the premises. Angela

*There is intergenerational culture of welfare dependence based on ignorance of the economic system and learned dependency. But there also is a terrible breakdown of apprenticeship positions, secure low paid jobs to be used as a starting point and a destroyed manufacturing sector. Then there are skill lack problems largely caused by the crazy idea promoted by academics that even simple but worthy careers like teaching, nursing, and government positions cannot be obtained without a degree rather than valuable training on the job. Finally, there is an entrenched attitude by large sections of NZers that the Government provides not just for their survival but for their every luxury and if this is not forthcoming it is the fault of people who are not "politically correct". Beverley

*Why should I work when there are mugs like you who are prepared to. John

*I would like to vote for all of the above. Beneficiaries are individuals and while some general trends are present not all beneficiaries fit the popular stereotypes. K

*I used to work in special needs ed. Many kids in this category have grown up under drug-affected parents, poor family relationships, lack of nutrition and nurture, and they have failed school. They see having kids early and getting the benefit as their only job and income option. We need to train them at specialised 'trade' schools for work they can do, with essential life skills. And - no DPB if you are under age - make the parents responsible for their support till they are 20. No DPB for kids who have left school. How about a big rethink of legal aid? Say one or two claims on it, after that you pay. Might make some think more carefully about their actions? Chrissie

*The other reason is that benefits are far to easy to get....why work if you don't have to. Ronmac

*Now that governments have taken all our jobs, they will HAVE to support them..also in the 1960's there was a job for ALL... reforms will not work without REAL JOBS! Rick

*I believe that those on benefits fall into 3 distinct groups .....
(1) Genuine, eg … pensioners, sickness beneficiaries, those recently laid off work etc.
(2) Long term bludgers, too lazy to work, their life on the benefit is well planned in advance. Some of those in this group don’t know any different, often 3 generations of a family have NEVER worked and only know “the benefit”.
(3) Out and out scammers, eg … DPB fraudsters, ACC cheats, career criminals etc.
I don’t know what the percentages of groups 2 and 3 are but I guarantee that there is a mountain of money to be saved (AND repaid) , of course to achieve that, someone would have to get off their arse, get tough and do the job they’re paid to do……………… but that wouldn’t be PC and it might cost a few votes, so we all know it will never happen, the brunt of any action this gutless National government MIGHT take will again be borne by the old and the infirm! Tony

*They are just too useless and lazy. Rik

*Too easy to apply for & then keep while doing other under the table work. Know them. Neville

*My sister has wrongly been on a benefit for 29 years and ACC are too stupid to see she is a fraud. Everyone except them know she fakes it. She skites how she can fool them and thus is smarter than them. I do not know one single beneficiary who is genuine. Derejk

*Nothing short of inbred laziness in a very large number of cases. Dont see too much mention if Asians receiving welfare, their too busy earning money. Gary

*Pregnant teenagers are being told that if they play their cards right, they will never have to work! Alan

*They are trapped by their mentality of entitlement. Terry

*It's been too easy for too long for a large number of people and they have other agendas. Steve

*Why actually do something constructive to support your family when good old nanny state will provide for you & all your variously fathered children. $1000 a week for lying on your back!!!! Bugger, I came out the wrong gender!!! Dave

*Our benefit system is so complex with almost every rule having a countermanding rule and the administration of various programmes run in such an incompetent way, that devious, sly and dishonest ferrals among the population can wrought the system mercillously ... and they do. The whole system needs to undergo a major cleanse. Go back to barrack style emergency accommodation and soup kitchens for those in genuine desperation. Make beneficiaries re apply every year and make benefit recipients engage in work training with failure not an option. Remove benefits for children, such as Independent Living allowance ... what a ridiculous assumption this benefit is based on. If a child is in danger in their environment, they need to be removed and put in a residential care facility, not given some miserable benefit and cast adrift. How stupid are the people who have introduced these benefits ... or are they just plain evil. Dianna

*We all know a number people who constanrly take advantage of the welfare system for dollars and knowhow inside pout how to do this many do have the capabilities to work and should then those genuine people who occasionally need assistance would get the help they required. Stop wasting millions of dollars on those who are daily ripping the system off. Fay

*Lack of confirdence or fit - makes them want to stay away and not front to be told what to do. 2 of daughters ex-partners both avoid work as "can't find right job". Cliff

*DPB is one of the major financial burdens on our economy. It was created to help genuinely needy women with children whose marriages had broken down and they couldn't support themselves and their children. Today we have a society of young women who see the DPB as a way of living without having to work. The more babies they have, the more money they are given. There is an easy solution to this problem. All single women who become pregnant and cannot support themselves should have three choices.
No.1 : A free abortion.
No. 2 : They must give the baby up for adoption at birth.
No.3 : They can keep the baby, but there is NO DPB or financial support of any kind whatsoever.
Fourthly, the contraception pill should be free so that there is no excuse to get pregnant in the first place.
It's high time people were made to be responsible for their own actions. Particularly the ones who get pregnant to many different men, and do so because they know that the taxpayer will fund their chosen way of life.
This needs to stop, and by removing all financial support from a certain date for all new pregnancies in single women, they will have time to make their choice. Nothing can change for those currently receiving the DPB because that was the law at the time. Jean

This week's poll asks:

What do you think is the MAIN reason why some people are long-term beneficiaries?
a) They don’t want to move off the benefit
b) There are not enough jobs available
c) They lack the necessary skills to fill the jobs available
d) Other

*Just plain lazy, do not want to work - no ambition. Graeme

*I know of a family who have who sold an investment property, used the funds to reduce the mortgage on their lifestyle property, then the wife resigned her job and went back to uni so that the family income (only Dad working) was below the threshold for their two children to be entitled to a student allowance. The Accountant told them it is only accessed on a families income. My wife works with a filipino guy at a hotel in town His wife is a nurse in a resthome (she works nights) They live in a rented house, and their son can't get the Student allowance because the combined total of modest wages puts them over the limit. Unbelievable! Rob

*Bring back skilled training and peoples pride. Annette

*It takes always courage and energy to make major changes. Many people don't have the necessary motivation unless they are forced to. So do we use the stick or carrot? Fiona

*Probably a mix of all, but certainly I have the impression from some I talk to is it is a lifestyle choice, a choice that should not be. John

*We the taxpayer make it too easy for them. Barry

*It has become a way of life for a lot of beneficiaries and there is absolutely no incentive for them to change. The system must be monitored more closely and some tough decisions need to made. Graeme

*Some people lose confidence and don't think they are good enough to work! ie Mums going back to work force. The government make it too easy to stay on benefit and you are penalised, not rewarded to go back to work. Jane

*There is a bit of "a" "b" or "c" but there is no real incentive to get unhitched once hooked into this form of welfare. The benefit should expire after a suitable period and the hard questions asked before it is reinstated. Tim

*Too many people find it too easy. Money is handed out willy nilly and as you have shown even those instilled with regulatory skills such as WINZ are compounding the problem!!!! Arlene

*Particularly a sizable minority on the D.P.B. Perennial pregnancy brings financial reward. I believe that no increased benefit should result from children conceived by those thereon. Peter

*As a financial adviser I've had potential clients who have won big in Lotto ask me to invest the money in such a way that would allow them to retain the benefit they were on. Needless to say I walked away. Steve

*Welfare “The New Frontier.”
While agreeing with Muriel Newman’s analysis of tackling welfare and the impossible future of actually having to pay for those who are “permanent and semi-permanent” on the benefits culture. I doubt very much that ANY of the major parties involved in our Parliament...with perhaps the exception of Act. Would dare place this issue as an election platform?!
To deal successfully with our ever increasing welfare expenditure we would need,
a) Removal of the MMP electoral system.
b) Work for the dole. Example. Unemployed help out in the rebuilding and clean up in Christchurch.
c) Institute a non transferable voucher system for food and other core major items.
d) Some type of birth control for those families whose income is below the poverty line.
However this is of course merely academic, whoever attains power at the next election will, after sundry tinkering for six to nine months revert into pre-election mode. Government by the people for the people will remain in the history books, and mankind will; as the Roman Tacitus stated continue crave the “Lust for Power” which is as he remarked “the most flagrant of all the passions”.
“If men could learn from history, what lessons it might teach us” But passion and party blind our eyes, and the light which experience gives us is a lantern on the stern which shines only on the waves behind us”
Quotation Samuel Coleridge
In America it is called the “Potomac Fever”, here in “God’s Own” perhaps it should be named
“The Wellington Virus”!! Brian

*In Papakura, we have at least one family that is a THIRD generation dole beneficiary. A teacher some years ago asked a kid in primary school what he intended to do when he left school - his answer - go on the dole. No thought of anything else! We sure have a problem to fix! Ted

*No extra benefits for single mothers who have another child while on the benefit. Either family support it, or it is put up for adoption or pregnancy is terminated. Peter

*Earning money on the black economy gives them a jolly good income. I have paid someone money for a job I can no longer do myself and know she is on a benefit. Eneka

*Choosing one of the options presented can be somewhat misleading. Inevitably I suggest, the main reason chosen will be "A" Howevre, a mix of A, B & C is more likely the case. The number of unskilled jobs available is minor compared to vacancies for higher skill levels. Ray

*Who would want a lot of these "people" anywhere near ones' business? Rod

*A lot of people on the dpb cannot go to work because either there are no jobs, or the wages dont cover expenses, or to work and put the children into care, costs more than staying home, so financially isn't viable. Anna

*Too lazy, too ignorant,and too easy to get handouts. Claire

*What would make you shoot the benefit goose?
How would youse buy beer, smokes, drugs et al if "The Man" doesn't pick up the tab?
STOP the DPB immediately: if you want to have a kid, the government will NOT pay you for it.
However, when tax-paying Mum or Dad dies early the government WILL provide social security.
EVERY benefit-receiver who hasn't actually worked and paid tax will be on a SUBSISTENCE BENEFIT.
"Quarantine" is an AWESOME idea, BUT it should be for 90%.
Social Security in the face of an unprecedented event (like death of a spouse) was the original reason for our welfare system and it still should be.
If you don't contribute, then you don't receive. Simple.
THE ANSWER: get off your FAT, LAZY A**E and do an honest day's work. Mark

This week's poll asks:

What do you think is the MAIN reason why some people are long-term beneficiaries?
a) They don’t want to move off the benefit
b) There are not enough jobs available
c) They lack the necessary skills to fill the jobs available
d) Other

*Why work when you can get cash for doing nothing. There are plenty of lazy sods in this country and most of them are brown. Bill

*Why should they when they are already paid to do nothing. Debra

*We have had a brush recently with being dependent upon the welfare system. Luckly we haven't had to stay on it long term but have been extremely surprised by attitudes others have towards you once you are on the "benefit".
When looking for work, as you do when you are on a benefit, employers showed distain and lack of interest if they found our you are a beneficiary. And this is why IMO people get stuck on the benefit, people are less inclined to give them a chance. Plus if you are on a benefit and then GET a job, your payments stop cold, then trying to live, pay bills and have enough money to feed yourself and your family until your first paycheck comes through is daughting. I think the fear of the shortfall in household income is a genuine fear that people have in regards to transitioning off the welfare system to paid employment. We were grateful for the help but even more thankful to be off the govt books. It would be sad to see oridinary hurting Kiwis hurt even more by the actions of a few. The Govt needs to get smart and make the establishment of jobs and buisinesses here in NZ its prime focus. Make it worthwhile for businesses to be here. Then welfare dependency will drop. There will always be the lazy ammong us but most people want to work in a decent well paying job. Wendy

*Why would you work when you can get $350 for being on the dole! Brent

*Pretty well everyone knows someone who chooses to be on a benefit, I have a relative who believes it is her right to draw a benefit, anyone else noticed how many kids are pushing prams around these days? Beneficiaries should definitely have restrictions put on what they can use the benefit for, I doubt the liquor outlets in benefit subsidised areas have even noticed the economic downturn. John

*Many are in a cash economy. Esp young males who supply and sell drugs. Al

*Why work when you can skim off the taxpayers? Peter

*3 egs of long-term welfare beneficiaries, friends of mine (will call them A, B and C):
A: never had full-time employment, on dole from school early eighties and then sickness benefit (due to alchoholism and cannibis addiction developed from too many years of idleness) for 25+ years. Own house (inheritance from deceased father), Sky TV etc, supportive mother. Died suddenly mid-forties of acute multi-organ failure. He was once a multi-talented sportsman, intelligent, good-looking. Died fat, no teeth, dirty.
'B & C': Moved to far north from Auckland after working and saving for property up there 20+ years ago. Grew and sold cannibis to subsidise the benefits they collected. 'A' had history of benefit reliance, mainly sickness and ACC, dubious reasons but never questioned by authorities. He committed suicide 2 years ago, due to drug dependency (cannibis) and depression. ACC paid for his funeral costs.
'B', his partner, a chronic and hopeless alcoholic who has been in and out of hospital for umpteen reasons (bone breakages from falls, burns from hot water, was even run over by her current partner whilst taking a pee behind the ute he was reversing - she was so drunk she didn't know he was even in the ute) due to her addiction. Has cost tax-payers probably around $1m for hospitalisations, multiple councellors, benefits. Now on a widows benefit although they were not married. Her friends and family have given up on her. She has been in rehab many many times, always fails. She was once an intelligent sucessful woman with a good job in Auckland. Now, due to the welfare system, she won't see 55 (she is 51), no question. That is how successful our welfare system is! Welfare system employs many trough-feeders in the Far North (counsellors mainly). Do we want welfare reform? You bet!!! Sharen

*Too many jobs have moved off to Asia, especialy the jobs that were avaliable for the lower social economic level. Bob

*Also a lot of people are purposely living in isolated areas where there is little oportunity to find work. David

*It is a combination of all the above, but it is primarily because they can. If the government placed a time limit on welfare dependency, the option of long-term or even lifetime welfare would not exist. Alistair

*Our benefits system entrenches dependence and makes living off welfare an alternative life style choice. There are also other, deeper and more serious effects. It robs people of the dignity of providing for themselves. It robs them of a productive focus for their lives and the value that comes from being a contributing member of society. These things also have an effect on the environment in the home, often contributing to family violence, drug use and crime. Government needs to make a change before it is too late. Michael

*I would have said A but there is more to it than 'not wanting to'. Ian

*Why work? when the government steals someone else's money to give to you. Far easier. Brent

*It is human nature to not want to work. Ian

*There is no incentive to work because the benefit pays them nearly as much. It is not right that the taxpayers' money is used by beneficiaries to buy tobacco and alcohol (and drugs) I would rather see them fed healthily and housed properly, without any discretionary money to waste on these other things. Glenn

*We have had a politically motivated disconnect of rights from responsibilities for at least 20 years now so rights without responsibilty are now part of our culture. Ian

*I believe a lot of people who were previously on the "dole" have been placed on benefits of one kind or another to reduce the "dole" numbers. There are a lot of training schemes available - but most of them are ineffective. There is a training centre next to where I work, but all they seem to do is stand about outside smoking and drinking coffee. I know several people who have worked there, who have gone there with enthusiasm and wanting to make a difference. They have all left after relatively short periods of time worn down by the futility of trying to teach skills to people who have only enrolled on the course to keep their dole money coming in. Sandra

*In all cases they have their own reasons, and they can be varied as many time as there are people. In general it is the lack of encouragement by negative departments that operate way behind the eightball, with vindictive staff that are ill trained and lack any compassion. What needs to happen is for WINZ and CYFS to close down, with a new organisation/s taking their place that operates positively. Rawiri

*Actually probably a combination of A & B with more emphasis on A. Walter

*The general level of skills (and education) is woeful. Gerhard

This week's poll asks:

What do you think is the MAIN reason why some people are long-term beneficiaries?
a) They don’t want to move off the benefit
b) There are not enough jobs available
c) They lack the necessary skills to fill the jobs available
d) Other

*The system is riddled with people who don't want to leave welfare. They have worked the system so it pays just enough for them to get by when they add on their income from cash jobs. They never get investigated and they never get asked to work. It is outrageous because many of these people could be contributing to helping this country go forward. Jim

*The 'left' always bleat that there are no jobs, but the reality is that there is no need to leave welfare because the system is way too slack. Wendy

*Most are rorting the system. It's rife. John

*Every where you look people are on the take. There are fewer and fewer of us taxpayers left funding the system. It's time the government cracked down to sort it all out. Not much chance under smiley John though! Brian

*Welfare is a disaster - its the kids I feel sorry for. So many women have more children just because it means a bigger benefit. Yet they are the ones who end up in social welfare care if the are lucky and hospital if they aren't. It is tragic that it has been allowed to continue. Anne

*It's long past time for a major crackdown in welfare. People have been rorting the system for years and politicians have just turned a blind eye. Geoff

*All that money and effort by the Welfare Working Group will probably be wasted as I can't see Key having the guts to carry out any of the tough reforms. Yet major reform is desperately needed. Trevor

*Don Brash is in favour of welfare reform - maybe he will get things rolling. Shona

*They should cut all benefits to teenagers and get their parents on their case - as used to happen - pushing them to get a job or finish school. And there should be no extra payments for women who have more children on welfare. The time for being generous is well and truly over. Andrew